Dreifaltige Rollenspiel-Lektüre

Drei Falten mit einem Rollenspielerkopf dahinter, ergibt einen nachdenklichen, amüsanten und relativ bodenständigen Blick auf das was war, ist und möglicherweise in der Szene los sein wird.

Donnerstag, Mai 01, 2008

Things you already know (via Trollsmyth)

Cute. The therpgsite-folks are finally clueing in on facts, that anyone who even BOTHERED to read “Vampire: the Masquerade” back in the early 90’s could have found out waaaaaay earlier.

Look who’s laughing now, you pricks: if you hadn’t wasted your time bashing something you don’t even understand, you could already have reached this “pearl of late wisdom”.

Haw-haw and so long, you fuckers.

4 Kommentare:

Anonymous Skyrock meinte...

I'm more with James Maliszewski on this one:
Indeed. In my experience, the most fun campaigns I've ever played acquired "stories" after the fact, through the slow accumulation of adventures, NPC encounters, and random events that, in hindsight, took on a coherence and unity that helped make it more than the sum of its parts. That is the kind of play I prefer and that, to me anyway, is why I roleplay. Anything more organized than that, anything that smacks of too much planning on the part of the referee to push the campaign this way or that isn't what I want. If I wanted that, I'd read a novel.

I think Kevin's post about improv is closer to my ideal, though I think I still prefer my gaming a fair bit more random than improv allows. Even so, he hits on some excellent points and I can get behind the main thrust of his argument. It probably helps that he's part of my gaming group and what he says is in close to the ideal we all strive for in our games.


This is close to my games. The game itself is more like a sports event, and the story that emerges from it more like the refined and stripped 2-minute-report about this event, where foreshadowing and so on can only be found in hindsight and are actually accidentally.


Apart from this, it's common knowledge that Vampire wasn't the first one to promote "story", even if we restrict "common" to theRPGsite.
Everyone half-way educated about gaming history knows that Müller(dot)Westernhagen hasn't created Vampire in a vacuum, but rather stole a big bulk of the ideas presented within from Dragonlance, Cyberpunk and Shadowrun.

(Btw, I've found again my old Vampire: Dark Ages (non-revised), and skimming through it I found the seeds for the cheaty storytelling that Storytelling has often been rightfully accused of, and that you denied that it even exists in RAW. And I even checked the authors, Mister Dot was the main one on this book, so he must have _at least_ approved the cheating that's recommended in it.

I could give some details if you like, maybe elsewhere. It would be interesting for me to see if and how these bits have been changed from the text in VtM 1st edition, something I can't check as I lack the books.)

Mai 01, 2008 8:10 nachm.  
Blogger alexandro meinte...

That was 1998, a time where Hagens' name wasn't even worth the paper it was printed on, as he had already- for the most part- withdrawn from the gaming business and wasn't making active contributions as an author. The fact that he is listed among the authors is probably due to the fact that some of the material in V:tDA is reprinted from 2nd Edition V:tM (I have to check it out again, to be sure about this).
I would like to get into detail about the "cheaty storytelling" you mentioned (the Storyteller-channel at Tanelorn is pretty empty anyway and, unlike the VtM channel at B!, we probably won't be disturbed by idiots there).

"Everyone half-way educated about gaming history knows Hagen hasn't created Vampire in a vacuum, but rather stole a big bulk of the ideas presented within from ... Cyberpunk and Shadowrun."
I don't know about Cyberpunk, but Shadowrun- I don't think so, pardner'. Or are you just talking about dice pools, in which case: OK he stole that idea (like most RPG designers of his time)?

Storywise, even the worst WW railroady-"adventures" (Giovanni Chronicles 1- *barf*) never sunk as low as the Dragonlance examples mentioned on Grognardia. There has never been an instance in WW adventures, where characters were "predetermined" to meet a certain end nor to be immune against death at all costs.
The "official" characters are no more annoying and intrusive than Erin Tarn in RIFTS or Dodger in Shadowrun- most of the stuff that happens to Lucita and Theo Bell just *doesn't matter* to the normal group (unlike the examples of Raistlin et.al. in Dragonlance).

Mai 02, 2008 12:50 vorm.  
Anonymous Skyrock meinte...

Tanelorn might be a good idea. Gimme a couple of days to go once again through the book and to collect the whole evidence.

Regarding Shadowrun:
I'm not talking about dice pools, although this one is quite evident. I can see also some minor bits in other mechanics, although this one might also be parallel development or accidental similarity.

What I talk about are the old adventures, like Mercurial. Many of them were based on "story", with the challenges just as gap filler, but with reams and reams of backstory and read-aloud texts, and lots of scripted events where NPCs show off, such as the scripted death of Marias agent by dragon fire, or the scripted suicide of the Aztech black-op chief in the showdown on the rooftop of the Taetzel skyscraper. (What might be a reason that pre-packaged adventures never took off among the typical Shadowrunners, except among the collectors and the metaplot geeks. We can say a lot of bad things about the Shadowrun players, but "passiveness", "devoutness to the story hour" and "toadying towards GMs beloved NPCs" were never a major part of their attitude.)
I can clearly see how this influenced Vampire, with mood texts, hidden backstory (that the PCs should _never_ find out) and so on, especially as we look at the older editions when the designer PC wankery took finally off.
Looking at the business side, influences are also clear. Shadowrun had quickly unrelated merchandizing such as novels and a boardgame, as well as metaplot as a way to bind setting geeks, means which were quickly adopted in Atlanta.

Mai 02, 2008 1:37 vorm.  
Anonymous ghoul meinte...

Das ist aber eine Ausdrucksweise, also wirklich.
;-)

Mai 02, 2008 2:15 nachm.  

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